Search Engine OptimisationTips & Tricks

Google and the SEO community: SEO Mythbusting


it depends really is the answer to a lot of things so what’s it depend on it depends on so many different things it depends on the question you’re asking what it depends on is like the funny meta answer now um it’s like what is this a new site is this a site that is literally doing a site move is it an actual website move or are just like changing the url organize or something uh what does your service setup look like how fast is your website what is the content looking like is there a lot of competition around this bit of content uh is it a duplication of the information contained that is somewhere else and it depends on so many different things because as you might figure out the entire process on our site the entire infrastructure on our site is very large and vast and complex[ Music][ Applause][ Music] hello and welcome to another episode of seo mythbusting today with me is barry schwartz uh you might know him from chatter and search engine roundtable very happy to have you here welcome to seo mythbusting and we’re gonna talk a little bit about community magnificent thanks for having me in your impressive office yeah all the like secret ideas and substance they’re not that’s a secret anymore so um when i reached out to you to check if you’re available to like do this you said you wanted to talk about the relationship between google and the seo society so one thing that does puzzle me a little bit is that we are trying to be as transparent as possible to people and we are balancing between like being translucent and being confusing but we are oftentimes met with like this like i don’t know um idea that we are withholding truth or like we are we’re having like a different intention than what we’re saying we do which is not the case like where does that is just coming up well you have to understand that these are these are beings building out content in order to better to get traffic to their websites and in some examples where either you have feature snippets where the traffic these publishers believe you’re taking their content and putting it on your own website liberty google search results and parties don’t have to click on from the google exploration to their website because all the answers you answer the query right in that on the google search results page because of that parties feel like you know why am i doing this why should i go ahead and write content that i’m getting zero traffic from which i’m not going to convert on but yes i see that i see that i understand that we hear that a lot but um we already know from studies and from experience reports from local communities that you oftentimes get a lot more qualified traffic you get better traffic to your your area from peculiarity snippets well maybe i signify there’s been studies running both courses on that fair enough and it would be great if you guys could go ahead and publish your own internal data or share in google search console to show what this specific publisher is getting from piece snippets a little filter say filter my accomplishment reports by boast snippets and you can see your click-through rate your impressions all that data and i think if it’s positive i think the community will be very happy all right well i’m not so sure about that because like there’s always a little bit of of uh agenda behind it and um yeah different people have different different tilts to this and i think it’s important to understand that fundamentally if you have content that is really useful for the users and you computed more cost around it because your site is is full of good material then i think these can drive a lot of traffic but here i am thinking like the complaints might be coming from beings where they traffic the content is maybe not as huge but i signify like there’s bits and pieces that we can pull out for the user but like the user has no incentive to actually go there so it’s like a i imply a lot of this stems from i’m in the u.s so i’ve been envision on the tv a lot of governmental like the congress and senate talking about these studies that were produced by different uh people in the industry or outside the industry even data providers saying google’s taking the lion’s share of the clicks intending parties are going to google and google’s sending fewer and less traffic day by day to publishers and that’s a trend that scares the seo webmaster developer and publishing community but that’s not something that we want to do i mean what we want to do is we want to bring beings and the contents publishers together that’s literally like the fundamental idea of the search engine and we’re trying our very best to see that happen um but we also know that sometimes the intention is not to do more on the publisher’s side like if the user wants to follow through that’s great for both of us for the publisher for us but if it’s traffic that doesn’t extend anywhere if it’s like the zombie traffic then huh that’s a that’s a complicated one to deal with but i see where you’re coming from and i i hope that we can get more transparency and and visibility to these issues in the entrusts of developers and yeah and maybe that will maybe that will backfire if you get greater transparency perhaps it will be better for better for everybody who knows that’s that’s the thing that i find very interesting that you’re saying that because that’s something that we retain knowing that when we are trying to be as transparent as possible that sometimes parties are taking us out of context or like falsify what we were saying um and then i like we are in this weird lose-lose situation right we we cater more transparency we lose we cater less clarity we lose that’s the tricky one to deal with i make i’ve been i’m clearly you know you know i write about this transparency and it’s just funny because the more transparent you are it’s like when you lose it’s like a lose-lose situation and i’ve been wrap this for so long sometimes you would over the history you’ve gathered back some transparency and then you’ve increased it and now it’s like i think it’s the highest it’s ever been in the community it’s it’s i don’t know i don’t know the answer to it i intend i think being as transparent as possible is ultimately gonna be the best honesty is the best thing you could do without injure yourself in your hoof yeah we’re not trying like to to misdirect you or we’re not lying to you so how can we make this into a win-win situation i think like we are doubling down on being translucent is emphatically the road that we want to go and we just hope that the community pickings that up and uh well i symbolize again i think what you’re doing today at these videos what you’ve been doing on the webmaster uh youtube channel for a long time the activity that you and your entire squad at the webmaster vogues team is put forward by on chirp on members of the forum and everywhere and i think that is what you need to keep doing because otherwise i mean it’s just proof it’s actual proof and truth you’re on the field doing what you need to do yeah even really um not so many years ago you viewed the google webmaster discussion you’re having around the world we had a big one in mountain view and i beings are google technologists sitting there taking notes recognizing what they could actually learn from the seo community and the publishing community and trying to make it and they’re trying to say all right that’s an interesting point of view that i didn’t have you’re taking that feedback you’re going to hold all google probe consoles based on feedback from the community utterly there’s so many things i bid more parties would use the defer feedback button like that is so supportive because if you’re reporting it over twitter it doesn’t really go anywhere uh if you’re reporting it over over our quaver details or talk to us in person then we’re like okay sure i bringing that to the search uh search console team and they’re like that’s one ruling out of many rulings that we examine every day but if you’re using the defer button like the refer feedback button um we actually get like quantitative data supplied by what the people want and that’s actually i know that we’re not like talking back we can’t answer everyone submitting feedback there but we are taking this in and we’re trying to determine the things happen that we construe are important that’s how the rapidity report happened yeah i entail incessantly it’s amazing how much you thrust out with investigation console and again it’s not really impelling you guys a dime it’s just more about clarity so it’s about clarity so let’s to be expected that that gets us goes us all together as one community further and building good material for the web i hope so right yeah and then you have all the people deliberation like hey oh you have chrome you have android and you’re tracking all these users and you’re saying hey why aren’t you working this data for search it’s a great way to improve search but then you looked at direct hit which was a big search engine back in the working day and they used click data and they were operated by a cluster of parties clicking on results and so forth it is very noisy as a as a data source somebody believes why don’t parties thought you i wish to know this i don’t understand that either and i think like it’s partly corroboration bias people like to hear the things that confirm their hypothesis that’s just like psychology and on the other hand it is maybe this like feeling or perception that we are trying to hide the truth i imply scheme assumptions are quite well off these days well it’s easy for people expressed the belief that of course because you can’t tell the full truth in all situations because potentially people can manipulate the search results that’s one thing the other thing is also just like when i say no we’re not expending it for ranking then i mean precisely that and we might use it for a b testing of different ways of presenting things in the front end or we might be using it for i don’t know what but people are or tend to only hear the flecks they want to hear and then you get misrepresented and then we have to clean up that rather than doing other good things for the community i make so one example um is with amp when you liberated amp there was when you first released it there is indeed people on different line-ups of the silver google ads unit google hunting team and other squads in the community as well saying different things and communicating different things which confused the larger community right some were saying it is a ranking factor some were saying it’s not and amp while it is not a standing factor in the core higher-rankings the only way to get to that top carousel is to be amp to have amp have amp sheets and it people look at that top carousel and that’s the top primacy if you want to be over here you don’t need amp if you want to be over here you need to happen to be number one you need that’s kind of like a position cause i actually don’t even know if we still do that like i know that the top carousel is an organic aspect but i’m not sure if you’re still requiring them but um we’ll get it in the description of the video because i don’t know at this time right but first when it was launched that was the only way to get over there it might not be that way today right but first when it was first propelled the only way to be in the f uh in the top and top narratives carousel was to have amp right okay fair enough that yeah right but it’s as you say it’s not really a position point the amp unit plainly believed in what they’re doing and they’re doing a splendid errand at what they’re doing they answer really really hard troubles they also apply developers ad publicizing business a leveraging to basically say like oh no we cannot have this very slow tracking thing here we cannot have this terrible piece of javascript on our site because then it would not be conformed to amp so that’s a really really helpful tool there’s a lot of privacy and and security inferences around the entire like dispensation of other people’s uh content and we want to cache that and build that quick you can’t pre-load for many interesting reasons that readily and that’s where the signed exchange wrap came from but that’s not really like being looked at much and that’s not really being like probed or considered much so like amp is being seen as what it was a couple of years ago i would say right and people are misunderstanding what the idea is the idea is not to break the web the idea is not to create a google-centric web the idea is to create a web that is fast for the user and successful for the user and the matter of fact simply is in a bunch of countries in what we call the next billion consumers countries the web as it is seen as either like a bunch of portable apps or like a knot of exceedingly proprietary walled garden-varieties and that’s what we are trying to alleviate and tie by making the web fast and accessible for these users and amp is the vehicle to get there more parties are like oh what’s happening i signify i want google’s always going to be held to a higher standard and that gives you guys a lot more responsibility we understand that yeah that’s why you guys are producing all that you have amp developer discussions all over the world all the time you have crazy quantities of videos and documentation around that you’re doing these things so you clearly are stepping up and that that’s the point of this conversation is seo myth busting so seo story busting discussion is that you want to make sure that even though you have all these theories out there all these illusions or whatever it might be you’re doing whatever you can because you know of the responsibility google has to kind of establish as much information as you possibly can to the seo community and the publishing community because of that yeah and we’re aware of this responsibility and we’re make it unusually very seriously you can also be understood that by if you look at when we launched the evergreen googlebot we didn’t just like throw it out there we could have just say like we’ll test in creation let’s see what happens we didn’t we did sure that we are not induce adverse effects to other people first and that’s what we’re trying to do and i would love the community to understand that we are not an foe we’re trying to do what we can to returning good qualified traffic to beings and we’re trying to put out as much information as is practicable that’s why we’re filming videos like this and that’s why we’re writing all this documentation and i would love to for beings to not have like these sound minutes where they just like jump on whatever it is at the time but like be more like considerate and trying to understand what’s happening and like getting data for themselves and thinking for themselves rather than just like going out the pitchforks right people i think people don’t realize there’s real human being at google and it was fun i was having a conversation with danny sullivan who’s the search liaison at google now and he was basically saying yeah googlers don’t have scalp we’re robots because people really talk to google like they’re a company and there’s real parties there with real feelings and really because something you know agree with something like google or whatever it doesn’t mean you should really like time wail your head off at whoever you’re talking to because people have feelings sometimes i have a bad day and then when i read certain things on twitter i’m like uh why am i doing this i apologize for those tweets that’s fine not you it’s okay principally that’s it’s fine um that just happens and we have to deal with that i guess that’s that’s part of the slew working at google is also the site of where people are just disgruntled and indignant that’s okay um it’s just sometimes when it’s what i don’t like is when it gets biased when people are twisting your words and are basically like calling you out for things that you didn’t do or didn’t say that’s like a really weird one and when i get asked the question i say no and feel like oh so look at the exact wording that he has consumed that must have will have like a secret hidden intend i’m literally i’m not sitting there in my computer or at my phone uh reviewing 20 minutes about like a malevolent road to i’m not a lawyer i don’t you have to go through some instruct i guess yeah i symbolize i i do go through some civilize but chiefly like to make sure that i’m not disorient parties right that’s the that’s the biggest hazard it’s not that we’re trying to hide something it’s more like especially when i don’t know something i’d rather say i don’t know liberty that doesn’t mean that people are like ah so you can’t say it’s like no no no it’s not that i can’t say i literally don’t know well john mueller said i don’t know and i asked him about what does i don’t mean he’s like either i can’t say or i don’t know um okay so that’s that’s john jeff doing it that’s strong when i can’t say i’m like i can’t really say or like like or maybe i misunderstood what john said so who knows right but mostly i’ll i’ll say when i can’t say something uh because i think that’s just exhibition to say like i i can’t say that for for example like if someone’s like so how do you how do you rate something for spam and i’m like i can’t say that because if i would give this information apart how we’re doing like spam perception material then spammers could use this information to game the system again right i used won’t discuss that i won’t discuss ranking simply because i don’t know much about it and i deliberately keep it coming so martin why don’t you want to know about standings i intend it’s a secret sauce you go home you just go ahead and like improve your own websites and spawn so much money on the side uh so first things first i think we should not know about ranking um because we are trying to like represent the community as much as we can internally as we do externally as well uh the other thing is i’m just really bad at keeping confidentials so uh that’s why i don’t want to know about like the standing bits and pieces because if i accidentally blab them that’s like not very helpful um and also it holds varying and there’s so much going on and we have like hundreds of ranking points and i don’t think there is that much actionable bits and pieces in there so i i don’t feel like we should be talking about it as much we should be talking about what do our consumers miss what do our users need how can we better understand it and how is impossible to better deliver good entanglement knows and we have a lot of work to do rendition wise material policy smart-alecky uh literally time copywriting-wise like there’s so much that we need to look into that i don’t think that that’s a productive discussion to have really yeah but when you tell the community precisely build the best possible website they go back and start laughing yeah build the best part of course i think i have the best possible website but “whats being” i do to make it better should i add https should i make it. 5 seconds faster should i yeah this specific thing like what should i where are my priorities right so i i think oh priorities is a tricky one because as i say like we prevent like varying things a lot um but let’s just photograph them on your google hub i’m not sure if that’s a good idea um but uh you’re right there are a few technological things that you can influence and they should do like https moving your website fast um but these to be derived from again belief used firstly and i i am only see i would love to see more companionships doing customer testing as in like trying to understand who are your customers and then actually having a conversation with them because what i think is the best content for my useds might not be what the users think is the best content for them and that’s a reality that i’ve seen in all the companies that i used to work here at uh the ones that did user exams learned a knot from time having a five minute discussion with some of the users and google has a product uh google consumer survey feature i think i remember i i got hit by that panda update once a long long time ago and john’s like why don’t you ask your users what they think of your content i’m like okay so i embedded one of those google questionnaire things and i published the research results then they liked my content so google proceed in there changed my algorithm met my website certainly high yeah that’s interesting there i didn’t know that “weve had” that make that’s a good one yeah and it takes literally it’s a second to embed i don’t know if it’s exactly called that but it’s like basically a little embed and then it sounds up right the website and then based on how you write it what page you’re on it gives people dynamic information to ask you more questions which goes into a google spreadsheet which you can use to publish if you want that’s awesome yeah that’s really cool breathtaking now thank you so much for being here barry i think this was a really really interesting um gossip about society and how google and the seo parish uh taken together or can work together and uh i’d like to thank you all for watching the season two of seo mythbusting and listening to us and the other patrons talking and thank you very much and bye-bye yeah yeah it’s me not you are you breaking up right now hello and welcome to seo mythbusters today i have bet what s human busting

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