Google and the SEO community: SEO Mythbusting


it depends really is the answer to a lot of things so what’s it depend on it depends on so many different things it depends on the question you’re asking what it depends on is like the weird meta answer now um it’s like what is this a new site is this a site that is literally doing a site move is it an actual locate move or are just like changing the url organization or something uh what does your service setup look like how fast is your website what is the content looking like is there a lot of tournament around this bit of content uh is it a duplication of content that is somewhere else and it depends on so many different things because as you might figure out the entire process on our site the entire infrastructure on our site is very large and vast and complex[ Music][ Applause][ Music] hello and therefore welcomed another bout of seo mythbusting today with me is barry schwartz uh you might know him from chatter and search engine roundtable very happy to have you here welcome to seo mythbusting and we’re gonna talk a little bit about society breathtaking thanks for having me in your stunning agency yeah all the like secret plans and nonsense they’re not that’s a secret anymore so um when i got contacted out to you to check if you’re available to like do this you said you wanted to talk about the relationship between google and the seo parish so one thing that does puzzle me a little bit is that we are trying to be as transparent as possible to people and we are balancing between like being translucent and being confusing but we are oftentimes met with like this like i don’t know um idea that we are withholding truth or like “we ii” we’re having like a different intention than what we’re saying we do which is not the case like where does that is just coming up well you have to understand that these are these are people building out material in order to get traffic to their websites and in some examples where either you have feature snippets where trafficking in human beings these publishers believe you’re taking their content and putting it on your own website claim google search results and beings don’t have to click on from the google pursuing to their website because all the answers you answer the inquiry right in that on the google search results page because of that parties feel like you know why am i doing this why should i go ahead and write material that i’m getting zero traffic from which i’m not going to convert on but yes i see that i see that i understand that we hear that a lot but um we already know from studies and from experience reports from local communities that you oftentimes get a lot more qualified traffic you get better traffic to your your locate from featured snippets well maybe i necessitate there’s been studies disappearing both methods on that fair enough and it would be great if you guys could go ahead and publish your own internal data or share in google search console to show what this specific publisher is getting from aspect snippets a little filter say filter my action reports by piece snippets and you can see your click-through rate your impressions all that data and i think if it’s positive i think the community will be very happy all right well i’m not so sure about that because like there’s always a little bit of of uh agenda behind it and um yeah different people have different different slants to this and i think it’s important to understand that fundamentally if you have content that is really useful for the subscribers and you contributed more price around it because your site is is full of good content then i think these can drive a lot of traffic but here i am thinking like the complaints might be coming from people where they traffic the contents is maybe not as great but i symbolize like there’s bits and pieces that we can pull out for the user but like the user has no incentive to actually go there so it’s like a i want a great deal of this stanches from i’m in the u.s so i’ve been view on the tv a lot of bureaucratic like the congress and senate talking about these studies that were produced by different uh parties in the industry or outside the industry even data providers saying google’s taking the lion’s share of the clinks representing beings are going to google and google’s sending less and less traffic day by day to publishers and that’s a trend that scares the seo webmaster make and publishing parish but that’s not something that we want to do i mean what we want to do is we want to bring people and the content publishers together that’s literally like the fundamental idea of the search engine and we’re trying our best to prepare that happen um but we also know that sometimes the intention is not to do more on the publisher’s side like if the user wants to follow through that’s great for both of us for the publisher for us but if it’s traffic that doesn’t make anywhere if it’s like the zombie traffic then huh that’s a that’s a risky one need to be addressed but i see where you’re coming from and i i hope that we can get more transparency and and visibility to these issues in the handwritings of makes and yeah and maybe that will maybe that will backfire if you get greater transparency perhaps it will be better for better for everybody who knows that’s that’s the thing that i find very interesting that you’re saying that because that’s something that we prevent knowledge that when we are trying to be as transparent as possible that sometimes parties are taking us out of context or like misrepresenting what we were saying um and then i like we are in this weird lose-lose situation right we we support more transparency we lose we support less clarity we lose that’s the ticklish one need to be addressed i represent i’ve been i’m undoubtedly you know you know i write about this transparency and it’s just funny because the more transparent you are it’s like when you lose it’s like a lose-lose situation and i’ve been envelop this for so long sometimes you are able to over the history you’ve plucked back some clarity and then you’ve increased it and now it’s like i think it’s the highest it’s ever been in the community it’s it’s i don’t know i don’t know the answer to it i symbolize i think being as transparent as possible is ultimately gonna be the best faithfulnes is the best thing you could do without knife yourself in your foot yeah we’re not trying are happy to to misdirect you or we’re not “re lying to me” so how can we make this into a win-win situation i think like we are doubling down on being transparent is unquestionably the behavior that we want to go and we just hope that the community selects that up and uh well i entail again i think what you’re doing today at these videos what you’ve been doing on the webmaster uh youtube channel for a long time the activity that you and your totality unit at the webmaster vogues team is put forward by on chatter on the forums and everywhere and i think that is what you need to keep doing because otherwise i convey it’s just proof it’s actual proof and truth you’re on the field doing what you need to do yeah even time um not so many years ago you nursed the google webmaster consultation you’re having around the world we had a big one in mountain view and i parties are google technologists sitting there taking notes encountering what they could actually learn from the seo community and the publishing community and trying to make it and they’re trying to say all right that’s an interesting point of view that i didn’t have you’re making that feedback you’re going to hold all google inquiry consoles based on feedback from the community utterly there’s so many things i wish more people would use the defer feedback button like that is so supportive because if you’re reporting it over twitter it doesn’t really go anywhere uh if you’re reporting it over over our twitter accountings or talk to us in person then we’re like okay sure i introducing that to the search uh search console team and they’re like that’s one mind out of many beliefs that we hear every day but if you’re using the defer button like the submit feedback button um we actually get like quantitative data of what the people want and that’s actually i know that we’re not like talking back we can’t answer everyone deferring feedback there but we are taking this in and we’re trying to meet the things happen that we construe are important that’s how the speeding report happened yeah i represent forever it’s amazing how much you thrust out with pursuing console and again it’s not really stirring you guys a dime it’s just more about opennes so it’s about clarity so let’s to be expected that that gets us gets us all together as one community further and building good nonsense for the web i hope so right yeah and then you have all the people contemplation like hey oh you have chrome you have android and you’re tracking all these useds and you’re saying hey why aren’t you employing this data for search it’s a great method to improve search but then you looked at direct hit which was a big search engine back in the working day and they used click data and they were controlled by a knot of parties clicking on results and so forth it is very noisy as a as a data source somebody belief why don’t beings believe you i wish to know this i don’t understand that either and here i am thinking like it’s partly proof bias beings like to hear the things that show their hypothesis that’s just like psychology and on the other hand it is perhaps this like feeling or perception that we are trying to hide the truth i symbolize scheme conjectures are quite well off these days well it’s easy for parties to think that of course because you can’t tell the full truth in all situations because potentially people can manipulate the search results that’s one thing the other thing is also just like when i say no we’re not squandering it for ranking then i imply precisely that and we might use it for a b testing of different ways of presenting things in the front end or we might be using it for i don’t know what but beings are or tend to only hear the chips they want to hear and then you get misrepresented and then we have to clean up that rather than doing other good things for the community i symbolize so one example um is with amp when you released amp there was when you initially liberated it there is indeed people on different surfaces of the silver google ads team google pursuing squad and other units in the community as well saying different things and communicating different things which muddled the larger community right some were saying it is a ranking factor some were saying it’s not and amp while it is not a ranking factor in the core ranks the only way to get to that top carousel is to be amp to have amp have amp pages and it beings look at that top carousel and that’s the top location if you want to be over here you don’t need amp if you want to be over here you need to happen to be number one you need that’s kind of like a ranking factor well don’t even know if we still do that like i know that the top carousel is an organic facet but i’m not sure if you’re still requiring them but um we’ll get it in the description of the video because i don’t know at this quality right but initially when it was launched that was the only practice to get over there it might not be that way today right but first when it was first launched the only way to be in the f uh in the top and top narrations carousel was to have amp right okay fair enough that yeah right but it’s as you say it’s not really a standing influence the amp unit plainly believed in what they’re doing and they’re doing a awesome place at what they’re doing they solve really really hard problems they too generate developers ad publishing firms a leveraging to mostly say like oh no we cannot have this very slow tracking thing here we cannot have this terrible piece of javascript on our site because then it would not be complied with amp so that’s a really really helpful tool there’s a lot of privacy and and security inferences around the entire like delivery of other people’s uh content and we want to cache that and see that speedy you can’t pre-load for many interesting rationales that easily and that’s where the signed exchange bale came from but that’s not really like being looked at much and that’s not really being like probed or considered much so like amp is being seen as what it was a couple of years ago i would say right and people are misunderstanding what the idea is the idea is not to break the web the idea is not to create a google-centric web the idea is to create a web that is fast for the subscribers and successful for the user and the matter of fact simply is in a knot of countries in what we call the next billion users countries the web as it is seen as either like a cluster of mobile apps or like a knot of particularly proprietary walled garden-varieties and that’s what we are trying to alleviate and specify by making the web fast and accessible for these customers and amp is the vehicle to got to get hitherto parties are like oh what’s happening i symbolize i make google’s always going to be held to a higher standard and that gives you guys a lot more responsibility we understand that yeah that’s why you guys are producing all that you have amp developer forums all over the world all the time you have crazy quantities of videos and documentation around that you’re doing these things so you certainly are strengthened in and that that’s the point of these discussions is seo myth busting so seo superstition busting conference is that you want to make sure that even though you have all these speculations out there all these beliefs or whatever it was possible to you’re doing whatever you can because you know of the responsibility google has to kind of return as much information as you possibly can to the seo community and the publishing parish because of that yeah and we’re aware of this responsibility and we’re taking it extremely very seriously you can also see that by if you look at when we launched the evergreen googlebot we didn’t just like throw it out there we could have just say like we’ll test in production let’s see what happens we didn’t we shaped sure that we are not causing adverse impact to other people first and that’s what we’re trying to do and i would love the community to understand that we are not an foe we’re trying to do what we can to wreaking good qualified traffic to parties and we’re trying to put under as much information as possible that’s why we’re filming videos like this and that’s why we’re writing all this documentation and i would love to for parties to not have like these sound instants where they just like jump on whatever it is at the time but like be more like considerate and trying to understand what’s happening and like getting data for themselves and thinking for themselves rather than just like get out the pitchforks right people i think parties don’t realize there’s real human beings at google and it was fun i was having a conversation with danny sullivan who’s the search liaison at google now and he was basically saying yeah googlers don’t have skin we’re robots because people time talk to google like they’re a company and there’s real parties there with real feelings and simply because something you know agree with something like google or whatever it doesn’t mean you should really like merely bellow your head off at whoever you’re talking to because people have feelings sometimes i have a bad daytime and then when i read certain things on chirp i’m like uh why am i doing this i apologize for those tweets that’s fine not you it’s okay mostly that’s it’s fine um that time happens and we have to deal with that i guess that’s that’s part of the batch working at google is also the site of where people are just disgruntled and enraged that’s okay um it’s just sometimes when it’s what i don’t like is when it gets unjustified when a person changing your words and are basically like calling you out for things that you didn’t do or didn’t say that’s like a really weird one and when i get asked the question i say no and feel like oh so look at the exact wording that he has expended that must have will have like a secret hidden meaning i’m literally i’m not sitting there in my computer or at my phone uh thinking 20 minutes about like a baleful room to i’m not a lawyer i don’t you have to go through some grooming i approximates yeah i mean i i do go through some develop but mainly like to make sure that i’m not confusing people right that’s the that’s the biggest risk it’s not that we’re trying to hide something it’s more like peculiarly when i don’t know something i’d rather say i don’t know title that doesn’t mean that people are like ah so you can’t say it’s like no no no it’s not that i can’t say i literally don’t know well john mueller said i don’t know and i asked him about what does i don’t mean he’s like either i can’t say or i don’t know um okay so that’s that’s john jeff doing it that’s strong when i can’t say i’m like i can’t really say or like like or maybe i misunderstood what john said so who knows right but mostly i’ll i’ll say when i can’t say something uh because i think that’s just gala to say like i i can’t say that for for example like if someone’s like so how do you how do you rate something for spam and i’m like i can’t say that because if i would give this information apart how we’re doing like spam sensing nonsense then spammers could use this information to game the system again right i used won’t discuss that i won’t discuss grading simply because i don’t know much about it and i deliberately keep it that way so martin why don’t you want to know about standings i intend it’s a secret sauce you go home you just go ahead and like structure your own websites and make so much money on the side uh so first things first i think we should not know about ranking um because we are trying to like represent the community as much as we can internally as we do externally as well uh the other thing is i’m just really bad at remaining confidentials so uh that’s why i don’t want to know about like the position bits and pieces because if i inadvertently blab them that’s like not very helpful um and also it restrains converting and there’s so much going on and “were having” like hundreds of ranking ingredients and i don’t think there is that much actionable bits and pieces in there so i i don’t feel like we should be talking about it as much we should be talking about what do our useds require what do our consumers need how can we better understand it and how is impossible to better deliver good entanglement suffers and we have a lot of work to do concert wise material approach wise uh literally merely copywriting-wise like there’s so much that we need to look into that i don’t think that that’s a fruitful discussion to have really yeah but when you tell the community time build the best possible website they go back and start laughable yeah structure the best part of course i think i have the best possible website but what can i do to make it better should i add https should i make it. 5 seconds faster should i yeah this specific thing like what should i where are my priorities right so i i think oh priorities is a tricky one because as i say like we maintain like varying things a lot um but let’s just etch them on your google centre i’m not sure if that’s a good idea um but uh you’re right there are a few technical things that you can influence and they should do like https clearing your website fast um but these stem from again concluding used first and i i was only see i would love to see more companies doing customer testing as in like trying to understand who are your useds and then actually having a conversation with them because what i think is the best material for my useds might not be what the users think is the best content for them and that’s a reality that i’ve seen in all the companies that i used to work here at uh the ones that did user measures learned a assortment from simply having a five hour discussion with some of the users and google has a product uh google consumer survey feature i think i remember i i got hit by that panda update once a long long time ago and john’s like why don’t you ask your users what they think of your content i’m like okay i used embedded one of those google cross-examine things and i published the research results then they liked my material so google went in there changed my algorithm reached my website actually high yeah that’s interesting there i didn’t know that we had that produce that’s a good one yeah and it makes literally it’s a second to embed i don’t know if it’s exactly called that but it’s like basically a little embed and then it pops up right the website and then based on how you write it what page you’re on it gives you dynamic information to ask you more questions which goes into a google spreadsheet which you can use to publish if you want that’s awesome yeah that’s really cool impressive now thank you for coming in for being now barry i think this was a really really interesting um discourse about community and how google and the seo society uh work together or can cooperate and uh i’d like to thank you all for watching the season two of seo mythbusting and listening to us and the other guests talking and thank you for asking and bye-bye yeah yeah it’s me not you are you breaking up right now hello and welcome to seo mythbusters today i have bet what s human busting

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